Hello and welcome to the political orphanage, a home for plucky misfits and problem solvers.

I'm your host, Andrew Heaton.

And today, we're going to go swimming in a big old pool of free speech with With one of my very favorite thinkers on the subject,

Greg Lukianov. It's a fun chat. It's a smart chat. I even run some hypotheticals of,

can I get arrested if I say X at him? Enjoy. Greg Lukianov is the president of the

Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression, and along with Nadine Strausson, is the president of the foundation for individual rights and expression,

and along with Nadine Strasson, is the author of The War on Words, 10 Arguments Against Free Speech and Why They Fail.

Welcome back, Greg Lukianoff.

Hey, Andrew, how are you?

I'm well.

Greg, you're one of my favorite guests.

I like that you keep publishing books because our friendship consists of you writing books and me interviewing you about them, but I'm fine with that. This one was so much less painful than a normal book. By the way, I am proudly drinking a Red Bull. I feel like on your show, I can kind of relax a little bit. Yeah. I mean, you can drink whiskey if you'd like. Whatever you'd like. We're recording at about 11 a.m. I feel like Red Bull is very appropriate. Red Bull and whiskey doesn't go right. I mean, vodka, Red Bull is more of the question. Yeah, that'd work okay. Well, here's what I want to do. I agree with everything in your book. I'm very much with you on free speech, and I'm very much with you in the arguments that you proffer along with Nadine in your book.

So I want to steal man you the best arguments I can against our position and see if some elucidation can't come out of that.

Okay.

So you're very much a free speech advocate. It's what you've

done with your career. You're the free speech guy. Me, me steel manning this, everybody's pro-free

speech. Everybody I know is pro-free speech on this continent and in Europe. And they all have

exceptions of, I'm very pro-free speech, but for this thing.

But that would include you and me, too, where it's, I'm very pro-free speech.

Okay, that person's-

But I do want to disagree even right on the outside.

Ooh, okay, spicy.

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