Welcome back to Gray Matters, the podcast of the C-Boid and Gray Center for the study of the administrative state.

I'm Jace Lington, the Gray Center's Policy and strategy director. Here with me has Bennett Nuce,

the Gray Center's new research director. And I won't be able to say new for long, but to start this

off, I just wanted to say, thanks, Bennett, for jumping in last minute during the tariff episode.

No, it's totally fine. We had a great conversation. I'm just glad that we were able to get the

episode in, and we're glad to

have you back. So much has been said about the overturning of Chevron deference in the

Loper Bright decision last summer. While some predicted a pro-democratic revolution in lawmaking,

and others anticipated that the whole administrative state might collapse under its own weight

without the

option of deference. It seems like since the reversal, neither prediction has come to pass. The

engine of government continues chugging along, and today's guest has written a useful paper called

Deference Undisturbed that might offer an explanation about why this might be the case.

And he presented this paper at a Gray Center roundtable earlier this year.

So I guess today is Ellie Nukmani.

He's an associate at Cumberton and Burling, but in his spare time somehow still finds

time to join us in the legal academy.

And this paper we're talking about today is his take on what

statutory stare decisis means in the context of Loper Bright. I also want to say he's the current

president of the D.C. Young Lawyers chapter for the Federalist Society. And most importantly,

he's a good friend of the Gray Center. Ellie, welcome back to Gray Matters.

Hey, Jace, thanks so much for having me.

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