You see lots of people that are arguing Christians even that are arguing about, you know, we need to have a Christian government.

We need Christian nationalism, and they'll even write books with Christian nationalism as the title.

And I'm just wondering what your thoughts are on that.

That it seems to be kind of like a newer movement maybe, or maybe it's old ideas that are coming up again, but Christian nationalism is a good?

I don't think so, no.

And now it's time for another interview on the Babylon B podcast.

Welcome to the Babylon B interview show.

This is Dan, I'm Sam, and this is Dr. David Vandrunan.

We're so glad to have you. You are a doctor of theology.

If someone had not a physical pain, but if someone had the pain of guilt over sin, feeling like they've sent too much,

and the God could never forgive or accept them, or if someone had the malady of feeling like they didn't need God, they were already righteous.

What would be your prescription as a doctor of theology?

Well, to the first person, I might point them to Paul, the Apostle, who said,

I'm the worst of sinners, chief of sinners.

And yet he was the great preacher of God's free grace, of justification through Christ's work.

So if Paul could be saved, who persecuted and approved of the killing of Christians,

then I'm sure any of your listeners could be saved.

If others think that they don't need forgiveness, I might point them to something else that Paul said,

that there is no one who is good, no not one, and that by our own works, we can't be right with God.

And if we just compare ourselves to other people, it's not that hard to find people that don't seem as bad as we ourselves are.

But when we think about who God is, and if we're really honest about our own hearts, about our own thoughts, our own desires,

we think about all the things we say every day that are unedifying and that cut other people down,

...