There's a better way to this, let me show you a better way.

And we are live welcome folks to episode 33, oh nine of the survival podcasts, it is my

great pleasure to have Jeff Lotton on the show, haven't had Jeff on as a guest in

quite a long time, but he spends an awful lot of time answering y'all's

questions for the expert council, which we all really appreciate Jeff. Thanks

for joining us today and he had to get up early because it is tomorrow already

where you are. It's the afternoon of the day before here. Yeah, my pleasure. I mean,

yeah, it's a cool morning here in some probable North East Australia. And we've

actually at last got a little bit of cloud, so it won't be quite so cold tomorrow morning,

but we've had really clear skies, which means cold mornings. Sure. And yeah, it's great to be here.

It's I'm glad you're okay with my expert podcast questions. I had a bit of a spell

of cup of times and I had to hit you with it. What a fool. Yeah, I always try and make it

if I can. Yeah, don't mind at all. Well, you're a globetrotter. So, you know, they're

going to have background noises at times. I appreciate you always make time to do it.

On that, just for people that maybe are tuning into the first episode of this show or

first one with you on it, can you tell people just a little bit about your background,

who you are and how you got into doing permaculture? Oh, I've been involved for a long time.

I first came across permaculture in 1980 in Australia. So it only became a taught subject

in 79. And it was it was a small movement to start with because Bill Morrison who founded

it, only allowed people to teach who already taken the design course. So it was built in

momentum and it hadn't got to that exponential function sort of acceleration and so on. Now

where everybody seems to know about it and everybody's interested in getting sustainable

...