So you were like, I've told this story before but real fast, like one of my kind of awakening moments as a person on the left was in 1999, because you were out in the Pacific Northwest I wasn't but I did see on the

rudimentary internet that we had back then aol.com I was part of a bunch of

anarchist rooms and there were different like different kinds and I could see for like months before the Seattle WTO protests I could see something in formation I could watch people you know organizing and bring it together

and then when I saw from the East Coast it popping off in Seattle it was eye-opening to me

because I saw that we can we can critique of course in retrospect 20 something years later

the limitations of that but I could see like that direct action could turn into something at least something spectacular.

Yeah, you know. So I wonder what your relation to that event was.

Well, you know, here's what I remember most about that was that while that was happening I was in the Lloyd

Center mall selling tickets to the Oregon Symphony. I worked at the Oregon Symphony in

the ticket office for like 20 years. So, like, and I already had kids, I had two kids at that point, and my friend Dan Shea,

who's 20 years older than I am, was like down there with Veterans for Peace, like marching around getting chair gassed and doing stuff.

And he was, he told me the weekend before, or like the week before it happened, he said,

Doug, you gotta go to Seattle with me.

This is history.

And I was like, yeah, but I'm on the, you know,

I'm scheduled to work and I got to make a paycheck.

I'm like, you had a parole pass. to make a paycheck. I'm like...

You had a... You had a parole pass.

Right, right.

But the other thing I remember is like,

Indie media came up around that same time.

I don't know if people remember Indimedia.

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