Okay, I am here with Jen McLean, who has a long and interesting history, fascinating history in the video game industry.

Jen was a tester on Civilization 2, and she's worked at AOL, Comcast Games, 38 studios. That's quite a story.

And story arc. And now she is the executive director of the

International Game Developers Association and the IGDA Foundation. Hello, Jen. Hi, Jason. Thanks so

much for having me. Thank you for being here. I really appreciate it. And thank you for,

well, I guess you didn't have to venture out in the San Francisco rain. I did. So thank you to me for coming out in the rain to you. Compared to Boston, this is actually really nice weather.

That's true. That's true. Yeah. I think we're getting a snowstorm on the East Coast right now, so we talk about a few different things, but the big topic right now at GDC is unionization.

And everyone's talking about it. It feels like there's more momentum for pushing towards game

developers organizing this year than there has been in ever, as long as I can remember.

You have talked about unionization in the past. You guys are holding a panel tomorrow about the pros and cons

of unionization, but I am very curious to hear your perspective. What do you think? Do you think game

developers should be organizing? To me, the push around unionization is really symptomatic of some

fundamental problems in the games industry. We have an oversupply of game developers.

And if you look at the degree programs that are turning out graduates, there are great

programs, but there are not jobs for the graduates to say nothing of the talent that's

already in the industry.

So to me, a lot of this is basic economics.

You've got oversupply.

Can we address the supply issue? Can we address the supply issue?

Can we address the demand issue?

The IGDA is focused much more in addressing the demand issue because fundamentally, we want

anyone with the aptitude and desire to be a game developer to have the opportunity to have

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