The worst crime of the 21st century, those are the, frankly, searing words of the brilliant

guest that I'm going to speak to you today, Martin Griffiths, who was the UN humanitarian

chief. So he's the head honcho of humanitarian affairs of the United Nations, whose voice

is so important right now. Martin, honestly, it's such an honour for you to join us.

So thank you. Thank you. Really, really appreciate it. I want to start with that, because you said the crime of the 21st, you know, the great crime of the 21st century. What there's been, I mean, as you and humanitarian chief, you had to deal with lots of horrible things. What is it about, what is it about this

that makes it in a league of its own, which is what you're essentially saying there?

I thought about a lot, a lot about that actually after I said that, because that was an instinctive,

I think absolutely correct. You know, look around at other crimes this

century. They don't come up to this one. And I think the reasons for that that I feel and it made me say

that are number one. It's the deliberateness of what's going on in Gaza. You've said this

right from the beginning. The people in Tel Aviv have been very clear

they are today, even more so about what they tried to do. There's no doubt that this is genocide.

Genocide is a very rare thing in itself, as one of the highest crimes in the book. But it's the numbers, the tragedy, using military means to create famine, which we now see

is now acknowledged at last, and to see the appalling pictures finally that are coming out of starving children.

It's always children first in starvation, as you know.

Yes, of course, there are other terrible crimes.

Ukraine, what's happening in Sudan, and so forth.

It doesn't add up to what's going on here as what Ted Ross of WHO has described,

a man of judicious words, as mass man-made starvation.

That just goes beyond every limit that we know.

I mean, if, for example, take Syria, I mean, this is a whole war that's

raged for much of this century.

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