The rules-based international order has been exposed as simply a system in which America and its allies operate as sort of super global citizens.

Thank you. Hello and welcome to Takwold Save Us, made in partnership with The Nation magazine.

I'm your host, Paris Marks, and this week my guest is Spencer Ackerman.

Spencer is the Pulitzer Prize-winning author of Rain of Terror. He's also a contributor at Cateo and publishes the Forever Wars newsletter.

And this is a pretty cool detail. He's also writing a new series of Iron Man comics with Julius

Oda and Alex Sinclair that comes out soon. So keep your eye out for those or, you know, go pre-order them. This week on the show,

we're talking about a conversation I felt we needed to have. This isn't coming out on

October 7th because we don't usually release on Mondays. But this conversation I had with

Spencer was recorded on Monday, October 7th, just in case there's any events or developments

that happen afterward that, you know, we don't talk about

in this conversation. But given that we're a year on from Hamas' attack on Israel and, of course,

all of the carnage that Israel has unleashed on Gaza, the West Bank, now Lebanon, and beyond,

since then, I felt that we needed to have a discussion about what has happened over the past

year, what we have

seen playing out in front of our eyes with this genocide that Israel has been engaging in, so that

we're not ignorant to that and not ignoring it, but also the potential consequences of everything

that we've seen over the past year and how that could potentially escalate the brutality and

violence in our world more broadly

as a result of what Israel has done with the support of the United States and so many other Western countries.

I knew Spencer was the perfect person to have this conversation with me

to not only ground what we have seen from Israel in the longer legacy of the war on terror

that Spencer has spent so many years looking

...