joining me now is a bit of a unicorn in the world of politics.

Maria Kamala, I first met when she did work largely for Republican candidates.

She has since worked for her share of Democratic candidates.

And it doesn't mean she may not work for somebody from either side of the aisle, but I think

the best way to describe her is probably as a constitutionalist, which these days I feel like

is its own separate and distinct category, given what we're watching with the extremes of both parties

trying to basically run around with ends, justifies the means, mindsets these days.

I've known Maria, I don't, I want to say, is it 25 years, Maria?

I think so. I feel like we were both much younger. Yes. It was the aughts.

It was the early aughts. It was the early odds. I think you've aged better than me. So I'm the one losing my hair and graying. So you've got you've got a couple advantages there. I'd say you've got better genes, but I don't know. That might like that's the wrong phrase these days. I can't, I can't say that.

But one of the implications, that that might like that's the wrong phrase these days yeah I can't I can't say that um but

one of the impetus is uh for this conversation were some memos that you wrote you did work on

behalf of the Kamala Harris campaign and and actually before we get to the memos that you wrote

that were part of one of the what happened in 2024 books. I say one of because there's like three or four already.

And I think a couple more that are coming.

And so you've shared all of these memos with me.

And frankly, and I want to get to it, the memos read to me like they're very,

they're very relevant right now, right?

What the issues that the Democratic Party and Kamala Harris were dealing with in in August, September, and October, arguably are the same issues today.

So I think it's a very relevant conversation.

But let me, I think it's interesting.

I just shortchanged your journey.

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