9, 12, 10, 28, 2, 23.

This is Deep State Radio, coming to you direct from our super secret studio in the

third sub-basement of the Ministry of Snark in Washington, D.C. and from other undisclosed

locations across America and around the world.

Hello, and welcome to another episode of Deep State Radio.

This is David Rothkopf.

I am your host here in our tiny studio in the third sub-basement of the Ministry of

Snark here in Washington, D.C.

I'm joined here in Washington by Rosa Brooks of Georgetown University.

We have coming to us from a studio in Cambridge, Massachusetts, Graham Allyson of Harvard

University, and from sunny Palo Alto, California, we have Corey Shockey of Stanford University.

This is the much-touted Thucydides cage match that everybody who is a listener of Deep

State Radio has been looking forward to throughout the summer, thus proving what a hopeless

bunch of nerds they are.

But having said that, they're just the kind of people who would buy Graham's book, take

it to heart, and use it to influence the world because after all, we are our listeners

and all of us members of the Deep State.

Graham, I'd like to start with you, and I was wondering if you could encapsulate in a

minute or two the thesis at the core of your book pertaining to the Thucydides trap.

So thank you very much, and it's a pleasure to appear on the program with Corey and Rosa.

So Thucydides trap is the dangerous dynamic that occurs when a rising power threatens

to displace a ruling power.

...