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The Audio Long Read

From the archive: ‘We the people’: the battle to define populism

The Audio Long Read

The Guardian

Society & Culture

4.32.4K Ratings

🗓️ 29 November 2023

⏱️ 44 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

We are raiding the Guardian Long Read archives to bring you some classic pieces from years past, with new introductions from the authors This week, from 2019: The noisy dispute over the meaning of populism is more than just an academic squabble – it’s a crucial argument about what we expect from democracy. Help support our independent journalism at theguardian.com/longreadpod

Transcript

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0:00.0

This is the Guardian. I am Peter C Baker, the author of We The People, the Battle to Define Populism, published in 2019.

0:26.6

This was an idea that the Guardian brought to me the paper was doing a series that may have been

0:32.1

a year-long series about populism and examining

0:36.3

the question of populism with stories about populist politicians and parties

0:42.4

and movements around the world.

0:45.0

In the course of planning that series,

0:48.0

there had, I think, been an internal discussion

0:50.0

at the Guardian about what populism actually was and the definition of

0:54.2

populism that would be used in planning out the series of stories and some

0:59.8

editors there had become aware that among academic political scientists and

1:05.6

theorists who thought about populism there was actually some

1:08.8

disagreement about how to say what it actually was, which in some ways mirrored how populism is used by non-academic everyday people, which is in all manner of even varied and sometimes contradictory ways.

1:23.8

So when the discussion came around to thinking about how the long read might play a part in

1:30.9

this series, the idea came up that I would do a story about this academic

1:38.0

dispute and using it as a way to contribute to this conversation about the alleged populist moment.

1:47.2

Not really going in to say who's right or not, but what can we learn about this conversation around populism by looking closely at

1:56.4

disagreements among specialists who study it?

1:59.9

Something that's changed since 2019 is that as far as I can tell people are talking

2:05.9

about populism a good deal less than we were four years ago and I have been

2:11.9

thinking a lot about exactly why that is.

2:15.0

It partially has to do with the defeat of populist politicians and parties at the ballot box. I don't think that's the complete answer and I

2:26.2

think it's an interesting lens to use while looking back at this story today. All of the issues I discuss are still very much issues in the world in

...

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