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Hello, hello, Malcolm here.

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shows. A little while ago, a friend of mine told me, you have to meet this person I know. Kate

Porterfield. She's got the strangest job in America. So I did. We got together, Porterfield and I, in a little conference room in Manhattan.

I just want to understand how you ended up where you are. So you're kind of viewing as we're just

talking, you're thinking about whether there's something here that will, that'll evolve over time that you would imagine putting

in the podcast? Is that kind of what you're thinking? Yeah. Yeah.

Porterfield is a psychologist. We talked for a few hours. Then again, and again, one conversation

leading to another until she began to talk about a case that had affected her

deeply. Although she doesn't use the word case. She says, person, a man on death row.

When I first went to see Kenny, so now it had been two months since the execution attempt,

he wanted to talk for the first probably two hours of our visit

about how beautiful his goodbyes were and the love he received from his family as he was going

into the execution. That's what he wanted to start with. And I found this so powerful and also

fascinating, honestly, as a clinician, because what I first thought was, oh, he's avoiding, right? He can't talk about the execution. He talked to me about love for probably two, two and a half hours. To the point where I had to say, you know, this is incredible and and I'm so happy you're sharing it, and I'm not surprised.

I also, though, I want to know what happened.

...