Welcome to the Podforce One podcast. I'm Miranda Devine. Today we're joined by Gary Shapley and Joseph Ziegler,

the IRS whistleblowers who were punished for investigating Hunter Biden's tax records. They're authors of

the new book, The Whistleblowers versus the Big Guy. Gary Shapley, Joe Ziegler, thank you so much for

joining us on Podforce One. Thank you so much for having us. Yeah, thank you, Miranda. I wanted to

congratulate you on your book. It's an amazing read and obviously a labor of love, the whistleblowers

versus the big guy.

And it's out on sale now.

And I recommend it to anyone who wants to know the nitty-gritty of the Hunter Biden story

and the cover-up, which is really the bigger part, I think, the more nefarious part.

And that was, of course, what ensnared you and made you lay your careers

on the line to make sure that the truth came out. So you're both appearing now in your personal

capacity. I know you wanted to make that clear because you're both still working for treasury.

Can you just tell us the book is called The Whistleblowers versus the Big Guy? Who is the

big guy? Gary, I'll ask you first. Yeah, so we went round around with this during our

testimony, right? And the big guy, and this refers to former president Biden.

And Joe, there was an email on Hunter Biden's laptop in which Hunter Biden's, or several emails actually, Hunter Biden's business partners referred to Joe Biden as the big guy,

or they made a comment.

You know, there's one famous email where they say 10% of the proceeds of a particular deal

with the Chinese company would be held by H for the big guy. How did you read that?

So what I guess it was multifaceted. The reason why it was important to us as a part of the

investigation is because if you're holding income or if you're holding a percentage ownership

for someone else, that's a nominee.

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