This is the 10% happier podcast.

I'm Dan Harris.

Hey, hey, on the show today, we're going to talk about the kind of personal transition

you don't hear about very often, if ever.

We're going to meet somebody who went from evangelical pastor to Buddhist nun.

Venerable Panyavati is a black American female former preacher who has now been ordained

in three separate Buddhist traditions, Teravata, Chan, and Mahayana.

She actually doesn't think that it's that radical of a trip that she's made, however.

In fact, as you're going to hear, she believes Jesus was a Buddhist.

In this conversation, we talk about why, in her view, many meditators try to jump over

important preliminary steps.

She calls that skipping to the end of the book.

Why Buddhism is not necessarily fun or easy.

The utility and the impact of making vows and what she calls healthy shame.

A little bit more about Panyavati before we dive in.

Here she's the co-founder and co-abid of embracing simplicity, hermitage, and meditation center,

co-director of Heartwood Refuge, and president of the Treasure Human Life Foundation.

She teaches all over the world was a 2008 recipient of the Outstanding Buddhist Women's

Award and currently serves as the vice president of the U.S. chapter of the Global Buddhist

Association.

This is a delightfully non-linear interview.

Heads up that Panyavati does use a bunch of Buddhists' terms of art, which I kept

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