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TALKING POLITICS

From Cholera to Coronavirus

TALKING POLITICS

Catherine Carr

News, News & Politics

4.72.5K Ratings

🗓️ 28 March 2020

⏱️ 39 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

David talks to the historian Richard Evans about the history of cholera epidemics in the 19th century and what they can teach us for today. How did contemporaries understand the spread of the disease? What impact did it have on growing demands for democracy? And who tended to get the blame - foreigners, doctors or politicians? Plus we discuss whether the political changes being driven by the current

pandemic are likely to outlast the disease itself.


Talking Points: 


Massive epidemics are a normal part of human history, even if they are infrequent.

  • You can see this with the Plague, syphilis, and, in the 19th century, cholera.


Cholera hit Europe in the beginning of the 1830s, and like many epidemic diseases, it was spread through increased communications.

  • The conquest of North India opened up trade routes, and that’s how cholera traveled.
  • The terrifying thing was the death rate: it was 50%, much much higher than coronavirus. 


When cholera hit, the response was heavily shaped by knowledge of the plague.

  • ‘Quarantine’ comes from 40 days, which is the period of isolation that the medieval Venetians imposed on incoming ships.
  • It took a long time for people to realize that cholera spread through water.
  • Cholera struck the poor. The wealthy lived on higher ground. This led to a lot of moralizing around the disease.


Cholera spread through trade. Measures to stop it would also affect trade.

  • Merchants in cities such as Hamburg suppressed the news of the spread of cholera because they were worried about the economic consequences.
  • This is also a period of medicalisation. Doctors go from being on the front lines, politically, to being more or less neutral.


What is the relationship between pandemics and xenophobia?

  • The Hamburg cholera epidemic of the late 19th century was clearly brought by migrants, but it didn’t lead to a significant xenophobic or anti-semitic backlash.
  • But in earlier epidemics, this was not the case. For example, conspiracy theories about The Plague led to mass pogroms of Jews.


The widespread disease can trigger the possibility of social and political change.

  • In Britain, the spread of cholera led to widespread criticism of the government. But a lot of the impetus for reform was short lived and died away until the next epidemic.


The impact of cholera was differential because of wealth. Coronavirus seems to strike the old.

  • The vulnerability of the old is medical.
  • Yet this virus still sparks conspiracy theories.
  • One of the main reasons for serious epidemics is the breakdown of the state, for example, Haiti in 2010.


Mentioned in this Episode:


Further Learning: 

Transcript

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0:00.0

Hello, my name is David Ronsman and this is Talking Politics. Today's extra episode is

0:15.7

with the historian Richard Evans and he's going to be talking to us about the history

0:20.4

of epidemics and pandemics and in particular what we can learn about coronavirus from the

0:27.0

story of cholera in the 19th century. Talking politics is brought to you in partnership

0:35.8

with the London Review of Books, the only magazine willing to ask the questions that keep

0:40.5

you awake at night and answer them too even if it takes 10,000 words. Is it okay to have

0:48.1

a child in the age of climate crisis? Where next for the coronavirus? Was it a hermit crab

0:55.2

that ate Amelia Earhart? You know where to go. Talking politics listeners get to subscribe

1:01.4

for a world-beating rate using the URL lrb.me slash talk. They'll even send you a free copy

1:10.7

of Sino-mania writing about China from the London Review of Books. Just go to lrb.me slash

1:18.3

talk.

1:23.6

Richard, maybe we should start with a little background to cholera in the 19th century.

1:28.8

Just give us a sense of the scale of it and the frequency of it. How often and how widespread

1:33.8

were cholera epidemics? Well, massive epidemics are nothing new in human history. They're

1:39.1

a normal part of human history even if they only occur every now and then. So what we're

1:43.8

going through now is really something that human society varies parts of the world. People

1:49.6

every part of the world has gone through many times over the centuries. A new disease

1:55.0

comes along from some other part of the world and hits a population that has not developed

2:02.0

immunity through having meaning exposed to it before. So you can see this with the plague

2:07.4

going porous back as the late Roman Empire. You can see it with syphilis brought from the

2:13.2

Americas by Christopher Columbus's sailors. You can see with many other diseases. And

2:19.8

in the 19th century the new disease was cholera. That is a disease of the digestive tract.

...

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