This is the Playbook.

This day, Meltzer, live at the National here with entrepreneurs, the Playbook.

And I got two of the leading entrepreneurs in the collector's space.

I have the CEO of the Collector's Nat Turner and Brian Lutton, CEO, founder of Lutts.

Welcome to the Playbook.

How much of the movement today is because of technology and how much is just the momentum

in inertia of more people because of COVID or whatever being interested in collecting?

Yeah, I think it's very much both.

I mean, technology wasn't really in the Card Hobby, I would say five, six years ago.

And you'd go around the national and very few.

There'd be the manufacturers and dealers, but there'd be very few startups, VC funds.

And signings, that's where I made my money.

I'm not signings, yeah.

But very few tech startups, if you will.

And now you walk around, I mean, there's probably 20, 30, 40 VC backed tech companies,

but if I had to put percentages, I'd say most of it, though, I think it's just general interest

in what Penini tops and others, very interesting manufacturing practices,

more access, more cards, getting younger people into it.

I think a big part of its online breaking, I think what not deserves a ton of credit

for when Instagram as well, and YouTube, of driving interest through remote breaking.

Right stimulating.

Which I think you could say is tech as well, but that's really the biggest.

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