It's on.

Hi, everyone from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network.

This is On with Kara Swisher, and I'm Kara Swisher.

My guest today is tribologist Jennifer Vale. Tribology is the study of friction,

wear, and lubrication between the interacting surfaces in relative motion. It's a little known,

but hugely important discipline. Jennifer is also the author of a new book entitled Friction,

A Biography. It's a fascinating look at the history of how humans have learned

to understand and manipulate friction. We don't often think about the effects of friction, but

once you become aware of them, you realize they're everywhere and impossible to unsee.

I'm excited to talk to her about it because in technology, one of the things technologists try to do

is eliminate all friction, including in social interactions. It's had an enormously bad effect on

our society, chatbots, the way we talk to each other, the way we conduct friction online,

has become something that's been very deleterious to our species, I think. And so it's really

important to understand the good and bad parts of friction. Of species, I think. And so it's really important to understand the good and

bad parts of friction. Of course, I'm a friction-filled person, and I have done very well by it,

and I think it's really important to do that for creativity, for innovation, and for basic

humanity. Our expert questions come from astrophysicist, Adam Becker, and health policy expert,

Ezekiel Emanuel.

This conversation will leave you feeling much smarter.

It's a kind I really want to do here on On with Caroushisher.

I know I talk to a lot of big names and stuff like that, but it's these issues that are critical,

and Jennifer has a lot to say on it.

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