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Hello and welcome to The Bunker.

I'm Gavin Esler.

Having criminal convictions didn't stop Donald Trump winning the United States presidency in 2024.

But could it stop Marine Le Pen, the leader of France's hard right opposition party national rally,

achieving her life's ambition and becoming President of France in 2027. Mr. Trump's convictions involved paying hush money

to the porn actor Stormy Daniels. The Le Pen case also involves money. A lot of money.

A French court convicted Madame Le Pen of embezzlement and her sentence includes a five-year

ban on standing for election, although an appeal court has suggested a speedy retrial is on the cards.

At stake, then, could be the political fortunes of Madame Le Pen, the future of the French Republic,

and by extension, perhaps, the future of Europe. Here to unravel this complex saga of

money and power politics, I'm joined by Emil Shabal, who's Professor of Contemporary History at the

University of Edinburgh. Emile is also author of the polity history of France. Welcome to the

bunker, Emil. It's great to be here and to talk about such a politically lively question.

It is quite extraordinary.

I suppose we should attempt to begin with some of the facts.

So what is Marine Le Pen's conviction for and how serious is this crime being taken?

Because some people have been suggesting, well, everybody's doing this kind of

stuff. Well, in a way, those people are right, and there's quite a long and distinguished

tradition in France of embezzling money, and various politicians over the years have been

...