Hello and welcome to Contemplations. I am joined by David Rands who is a vegan activist and I

found out about you after you made a video titled Is Is Lotus Eater's Podcast,

Secretly Vegan, where me and Harry

were talking about Halal and Kosha Slaughter

and how we didn't necessarily agree with it,

and that we talked about it particularly the exceptions in UK

animal welfare law that were made for it and how he didn't necessarily agree

for it because of course if you came about animal welfare which I would like to think I do you might disagree

then having an exception to fair treatment as it's outlined in the law at least

seemed counterintuitive. And you were very charitable actually.

I was quite surprised when I first saw the video I thought, oh no I'm going to get raked over the cold and called I don't know a murderer or something like that.

But no you didn't do that you're actually quite nice and you said you acknowledge that we do

clearly care about animals and I thought that well

You've actually looked at it and saw some nuance there so it'd be interesting to have a conversation because there are lots of interesting

aspects to this debate that I think no matter which

side you fall on it will make it interesting for you know informing the rationale for your certain behavior be it veganism

vegetarianism eating meat I think most people go their lives without

seriously thinking about it or at least looking at it in

perhaps the angles that we're going to look at it today because we're going to touch on lots of

quite deep concepts that might not necessarily be directly associated with this sort of conversation.

But I would like to implore the audience to be nice in the comments.

David has taken the trouble to come here today so be nice. It's a

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