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Code Switch

Freedom through the eyes of foes: Rev. Martin Luther King and Sen. Barry Goldwater

Code Switch

NPR

Society & Culture

4.614.9K Ratings

🗓️ 17 January 2026

⏱️ 22 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

In honor of MLK Day, we sit down with historian Nicholas Buccola, author of One Man’s Freedom, to re-examine the concept of "freedom" by comparing the legacies of Reverend Martin Luther King Jr. and conservative politician Barry Goldwater. In our conversation, Buccola reveals the profound gulf between Goldwater's abstract view of freedom and King's focus on the daily fight for dignity and individual liberty– and he helps us understand what this historical battle can teach us about the fight for freedom today.

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Transcript

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0:00.0

Hey, everyone, you're listening to Code Switch from NPR.

0:04.0

I'm B.A. Parker.

0:05.7

Martin Luther King Jr. Day is just around the corner,

0:08.9

and Dr. King is a figure whose legacy we think about a lot around this time of year.

0:13.9

Something is happening in our world.

0:17.3

The masses of people are rising up,

0:20.1

and wherever they are assembled today, whether they are

0:27.4

in Johannesburg, South Africa, Nairobi, Kenya, or Cray, Ghana, New York City, Atlanta,

0:35.2

Georgia, Jackson, Mississippi,

0:43.2

are Memphis, Tennessee. The cry is always the same. We want to be free.

0:55.0

But this year, it seems like certain parts of the country are thinking about Dr. King's legacy a little differently. You might have heard by now that the Trump administration recently removed MLK

1:00.6

Day, along with Juneteenth, as a free entry day at National Parks. And we talked just a few

1:06.3

weeks ago on the show about how this past year, Dr. King's image started showing up pretty regularly

1:12.1

in some very racist videos that users generated using AI.

1:17.1

That was before, the King estate requested that his image stopped being used on OpenAI's

1:21.6

Abseora.

1:23.1

And then, just a few days ago, it was announced that the MLK Day concert that's held annually

1:28.7

at the Kennedy Center would be moved to D.C.'s Howard Theater instead.

1:34.2

So it feels like this year is probably more important than ever to think about who Dr. King

1:40.0

was, what he represented, and what we can still learn from him about who we are as a country.

1:47.8

He's somebody who forces us to grapple with big moral questions about how we ought to live together.

1:54.2

He really forces us to confront questions that are central to our political lives.

...

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