Free Speech Is The Enemy of Free Speech, Apparently

Amicus With Dahlia Lithwick | Law, justice, and the courts

Slate Podcasts

News Commentary, Politics, Government, News

4.6 • 3.1K Ratings

🗓️ 20 September 2025

⏱️ 54 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Dahlia Lithwick talks to First Amendment law professor Mary Anne Franks to explore the inversion of free speech in America this past week, and to trace the ways our assumptions about the First Amendment helped to tip us into this upside-down. Dr. Franks, author of Fearless Speech: Breaking Free from the First Amendment, explains the contradictions inherent in free-speech absolutism, the role of government in suppressing dissent, and the impact of media and entertainment on public discourse. What are we to make of a movement that screamed “jawboning” and “censorship” for a decade, but when handed power enthusiastically enacts actual governmental speech suppression and censorship? And what does the First Amendment mean if the powerful are consistently afforded maximum power in the “marketplace of ideas”? Want more Amicus? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes with exclusive legal analysis. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Amicus show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/amicusplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:30.7	Ah, Benny's parents, thanks for coming.
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0:35.8	You're telling me, he outgrew his bike. We sold it, on eBay.
0:39.7	Oh, that's not quite what I meant.
0:41.2	It's free to sell on there?
0:42.5	Free to sell.
0:43.6	Easy too. Sold Benny's bike, your guitar, my jacket.
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0:52.2	When it's this easy to sell for free, you can't help but say when it's eBay.
0:56.9	Things people love. T's and Cs apply, excludes vehicles.
1:05.1	I'm Dahlia Lithwick. This is Amicus, Slate's podcast about the courts, the law and the Supreme Court.
1:14.5	Thank you. This is Amicus, Slate's podcast about the courts, the law, and the Supreme Court. We are going to channel all of the anger that we have over the organized campaign that led to this assassination to uproot and dismantle these terrorist networks.
1:26.1	We will absolutely target you, go after you, if you are targeting anyone with hate speech.
1:34.3	With God is my witness, we are going to use every resource we have at the Department
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