Welcome to the intersection of faith and culture. It's The Wall Builder Show, taking on the hot topics of the day from a biblical, historical and constitutional perspective. Rick Green here with David Barton and Tim Barton, later in the program, K. Carl Smith will be joining us to talk about Douglas versus Marks. That would be Frederick Douglas versus Carl Marks. It's going to be an interesting interview, a new book coming out. Wallbuilders.com is our main website. That's where you can learn more about us and about all the programs and different events coming up this summer. And then wallbuilders. Show, if you need to catch up on some of the programs you might have missed last few weeks and months. And then, of course, on all the podcast apps out there, share with your friends and family. Be a force multiplier and get the truth from the wallbuilder show in the hands of as many people as you possibly can. Okay, guys, so this is a, this is an interesting book because it's not a debate that ever actually took place between Douglas and Marx, but it's basically taking their words and just trying to show the two

different worldviews, what communism does versus what a biblical worldview does.

Well, you know, it's interesting to me just on the whole worldview thing, because I would go even

beyond communism, or at least before communism, go back to Marxism.

I think Marxism kind of is a mean form of communism.

It's the philosophy that really set up communism to become what it has been, which is the

destroyer of life, destroyer of freedom, destroyer of nations.

But the philosophy of Marxism really kind of predates what we know as communism and I've

just been thinking about the influence that Marxism has had on the last two to three generations

particularly the most recent generation but the one before that and the one before that

so that's kind of back into my latter days when I was younger, that it was coming in at that point in time.

And it was kind of started as socialism.

And socialism is kind of like a soft introductory gateway drug for harder stuff like Marxism.

And so you start with this kind of joint philosophy that, you know, society needs to change.

It needs to evolve. It all is part of progressivism. And progressivism certainly post-states

Marxism in terms of identification of that movement, but they all go together and they all have to

work together. And so if you take Marxism out of that, you certainly have the intellectual underpinnings of socialism,

although socialism, it goes all the way back to the book of Genesis, as do all these philosophies.

There's nothing new under the sun, but in our kind of lifestyle or in our younger American history,

I say younger American history, not as old as the Bible.

You've got the introduction of Marxism, and then you have the growth of socialism,

then you have really the introduction of communism, and then you get so much more in progressivism.

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