It's the Brian Lairn Show on WNYC. I'm Tiffany Hanson in for Brian today. Good morning again, everybody. All right. Joining us now is Sarah Cliff, an investigative health care reporter at the New York Times. She and her

co-reporter Margot Sanger Katz published a major investigation into how the applied behavior

analysis therapy industry, which treats children with autism, has exploded into a multi-billion

dollar business fueled by Medicaid dollars, private equity

investment, and almost no regulatory oversight. Their reporting centers on complete kids, a fast-growing

chain of autism clinics in North Carolina. They found a pattern of overbilling, overprescribed

hours, and documented instances of child abuse. The investigation lands at a time when the Trump

administration has identified autism therapy as a, quote, high priority focus for fraud enforcement,

that according to Cliff's investigation. Sarah Cliff, welcome back to

WNYC. Glad to have you. Thank you for having me back. And listeners, we'd like you in this

conversation as well. For those of you with children who are currently in that applied

behavior analysis therapy, excuse me, that ABA therapy,

we'd love to hear from you. What has your experience been like for your child? What does your child

get out of attending an autism clinic that they wouldn't get out of attending a school,

in a school setting? 212-433-9-6-9-2.

You can call us.

You can text us at that number.

Okay, Sarah, you focus, as I said, your investigation on this complete kids clinic in North Carolina.

You had an example you wrote about a six-year-old girl who fell asleep

in her therapist's lap and was woken up after seven minutes because it didn't comply with

company policy. NAPs can't go longer than seven minutes. What, first of all, what does that

tell us about how, that specific example really tell us about how

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