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I'm Alan Alder, and this is Clear and Vivid, conversations about connecting and communicating.

The Mailchimp's are very opportunistic, they're always after power, and so if I can get it with your support, I will do that, but if I meet a better friend or one who is a bit stronger, a bit more loyal than you are, I will switch to the other friend.

Oh, so it's like Congress?

Yeah, it is like politicians, but it's only the meals who are like that. The females, they stick with their friends.

They never have a conflict with their friends, for some reason I don't know how they manage to do that, but the meals are very strategic and always opportunistic and always changing position.

Franz DeVol began studying chimpanzees when he was a student at the Burgers Zoo in his native Holland.

For the last 30 years, he's been the director of the Living Link Center at the Yerkees National Primate Center in Atlanta.

For a long time, I've admired his insights into the social lives of chimpanzees and what they reveal about the roots of our own behavior.

I also admire his skill at sharing those insights in several best-selling books. His latest is the poignantly titled, Mama's Last Hug.

Franz, I'm so happy that you have a chance to talk with us today. Ever since I first visited you at Yerkees where you've observed chimps for so long, I've thought about our meetings and I've thought about how they relate to us as humans and how similar we are to our cousins.

And you've really been at the forefront of helping us understand that the title of your latest book, Mama's Last Hug, is really where I think we ought to start because that story of Mama's Last Hug is so central to in a way understanding who we are and what makes us who we are.

How did you know Mama?

I studied as a young student at Berger Zoo where she was already alpha female at the time. So I've known her for 40 years. I studied her carefully at the time and then I left.

But each time I left for the US, but each time I came back, maybe once a year, once every two years, she would recognize me even among hundreds of visitors.

She would pick me out and say, I would usually go to her night cage because they lived on a big island and so I certainly couldn't go there.

But I would go to her night cage where she would get food and I would talk a little bit with her. And so we were friends for a long time.

And the professor who did the last hug with her was my professor at the time. So he also knew her for 40 years. And he was about 80 when he went into the night cage with her to say goodbye because he was dying and she was very weak.

We normally go never in with an adult chimpanzee. You would never...

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