I'm Alan Olga and this is Clear In Vivid, conversations about connecting and communicating.

Some conservative politicians nowadays, they say things like that, like men and women

and that's all there is.

And I think things are not so simple for us and things are not so simple for our closest

relatives.

So you have all that variability going on, what we call nowadays in society, we call

it gender diversity.

So you find all that gender diversity also in the other primates and it's unfortunate

that our current societies are intolerant of diversity.

So we like to put people in pigeonholes like you are male, you are female, you are homosexual,

you are heterosexual.

We like these pigeonholes but not everything fits and not everybody fits.

And we are intolerant of the ones who don't fit in the pigeonholes.

That's Primatologist Franz Deval.

We first met almost 20 years ago when I visited the Yerkees National Primate Research Center.

We were there to film a story for the PBS series Scientific American Frontiers.

We spent a day watching the chimpanzee colony while Franz explained the chimped politics

behind what we were seeing.

One of the chimps I saw that day was a female named Donna and it turns out she plays an

important role in Franz's new book.

The book is called Different Gender Through the Eyes of a Primatologist.

This is great to see you again and congratulations on your new book.

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