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The Good Fight

Francis Fukuyama on Trump’s War With Iran

The Good Fight

Yascha Mounk

News

4.7963 Ratings

🗓️ 1 March 2026

⏱️ 39 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Francis Fukuyama is the Olivier Nomellini Senior Fellow at Stanford University. His latest book is Liberalism and Its Discontents. He is also the author of the “Frankly Fukuyama” column, carried forward from American Purpose, at Persuasion. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Francis Fukuyama discuss whether the unprecedented strikes on Iran will lead to the downfall of the mullahs, whether America can avoid getting drawn into a Middle Eastern quagmire, and whether the midterms will turn Donald Trump into a lame duck. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: leonora.barclay@persuasion.community Podcast production by Mickey Freeland and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google X: @Yascha_Mounk & @JoinPersuasion YouTube: Yascha Mounk, Persuasion LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

Well, first of all, it's not clear what Donald Trump's objectives are. This is what a lot of people have been saying is that he never explained either to the American people and may not have clearly in his own mind what he hopes to accomplish by this.

0:15.6

And now the good fight with Yasha Monk.

0:24.1

Well, when I'm up on Saturday morning to learn that the United States and Israel had

0:29.7

flown major strikes on Iran and when I learned over the course of the day that it seems

0:36.0

likely that they have succeeded in killing Ayatollah Khomeini.

0:41.8

I immediately wanted to get a wiser perspective on these events from my friend Francis Fukuyama.

0:48.8

And so I emailed him and asked whether he would agree to do a podcast in Substack Live.

0:54.0

And he agreed to do that.

0:56.0

So this is what we're recording today, slightly out of schedule day earlier than we would normally

0:59.9

release our midweek episode.

1:02.3

We talked about the nature of these strikes, what the likely future is for Iran, the risk

1:07.7

of a broader regional war, what position Israel is in a number of years after

1:14.1

October 7th and how its international standing has evolved, how it has achieved a number of

1:23.0

big military successes, but also seen its international standing reputation significantly erode.

1:30.2

And finally, in the last part of this conversation, we talked about what all of this means

1:34.7

for domestic American politics. I asked Frank how the natural experiment that he diagnosed

1:42.5

in late 2016 and early 2017 is going, whether it

1:47.9

turns out that historically grown strong political culture and well-written constitution is

1:54.6

enough to maintain democracy or whether somebody who has taken as extreme steps to undermine

2:00.1

that political order as Donald Trump

2:01.6

is likely to succeed in doing.

2:04.6

So, spoiler alert.

...

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