Hi, I'm Susie Larson.

Here's the podcast from Middays with Susie Larson.

Enjoy the conversation.

It's only just a matter of it's only just a matter of. Because walking just won't do dance. You don't have to know how to ever since, ever since we've got you left.

Welcome to Middays. I'm Susie Larson, so honored to get to spend this time with you. In fact, I look forward to bringing you conversations every single day that hopefully inspire you in your faith walk, the deep in your understanding of God's word, and that heightens your awareness of his very real presence in your life. Well, today's a special day for me,

because we get to talk with someone whose work has profoundly shaped my thinking, especially my younger years as a Christian. During my formative years as a young adult, it was Francis

Franjupane's work that taught me about Christ-likeness, about what it means to live with an

unoffendable heart, about how to process your wounds in a Christ-like way, about the importance

of humility, and the power of seeking a truly intimate walk with the Lord Jesus.

And I quote them all the time.

I remember one time it was a couple of years ago, and I quoted Francis.

Somebody said, Francis Franciupain, they didn't know of him. And they

said, is that a famous dead guy? I'm like, no, he's a famous alive guy. But I know that we're going to

be quoting him long after he's gone. He is a wordsmith to me. I think every line in his books

just packed such a punch. This is what he writes. True holiness does not come from following rules.

It comes from following Christ. The path toward true holiness, therefore, is a path full of both life and death,

perils, and blessings. It's a path upon which you will be challenged, empowered, provoked,

and crucified. But you will not be disappointed. If it is God you seek, it is God you will

find. Well, today we're discussing a book

that was actually published in 1986. And while it was a powerful read back then, I think it's even

a timelier message today. The title of the book, Holiness, Truth, and the Presence of God,

a penetrating study of the human heart and how God prepares it for his glory. And thanks to

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