Welcome to Words Matter with Katie Barlow and Joe Lockhart.

Welcome to Words Matter, I'm Katie Barlow.

Our goal is to promote objective reality.

As a wise man once said, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, not their own facts.

Have power and words have consequences.

Our guest today is an award-winning journalist, best-selling author and a special correspondent

for Vanity Fair. Earlier this year, his book, The Loudest Voice in the Room,

How the Brilliant, Bambastic Roger Ailes, Built Fox News, and Divided a Country,

was turned into the television series Loudest Voice by Showtime,

starring Russell Crowe as Roger Ailes. His reporting on Fox News eventually led to the

termination of both Bill O'Reilly and Roger Ailes. Gabe Sherman, welcome back to Words Matter.

Thanks for having me. So Gabe, when The Loudest Voice was first published back in 2014,

even in your wildest imagination, could you envision two years later, Bill O'Reilly,

fired Roger Ailes, fired, and Donald Trump, a series candidate for President and then President?

Yeah, you know, it's one of these things where you'll never be able to see the future until it

happens. When my book came out, after the initial rush of the adrenaline of the book tour and

that excitement, I really went into a pretty deep funk because I expected the book to land

with more impact than it did. I mean, it created a whole flurry of headlines and news articles,

but then it sort of went away and Roger Ailes continued to wield just as much authority as he had

before, even though my book included the first on the record examples of women alleging Ailes

sexually harassed them. And so it was one of these things where I was waiting for the floodgate

to open, and when the book landed, it didn't. And so it really took Gretchen Carlson's lawsuit

...