Founders Cannot Outsource Recruiting

Marketing School - Digital Marketing and Online Marketing Tips

Eric Siu and Neil Patel

Careers, Business, Marketing

4.6 • 1.3K Ratings

🗓️ 17 December 2025

⏱️ 24 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/ Want to recruit great marketers? Find them here: https://marketingschool.io/hire Neil and Eric break down why founders can’t outsource recruiting, how “A players” attract more A players, and why the first hires become your company’s DNA. They share a real hiring story (an “expensive” bet that paid off), a simple test to spot weak links on a team, and why replacing instead of micromanaging unlocks self-managing teams. You’ll also hear practical retention ideas for top talent, plus a quick take on YouTube growth trends, packaging vs. over-optimizing metrics, and why niche, high-intent audiences monetize better. Sponsored mention: Karrot.ai. Key takeaways: -A-players hire A-players, fast. -Don’t manage harder, hire better. -Views are vanity, revenue is strategy. Chapters: 00:00 Founder-led recruiting matters 01:00 Co-founder recruiting leverage 02:10 Expensive hire, huge upside 04:51 Naval’s “team interview” test 06:11 Replace, don’t micromanage 07:10 Small team, better results 08:01 Retain talent with alignment 09:09 ABM ads and landing pages 10:01 YouTube trend: simpler edits 14:30 Brain-rot views vs revenue 18:31 Wide TAM vs BOFU content 19:12 Growth metrics and focus 21:36 Entrepreneurship is a game 𝗔𝗕𝗢𝗨𝗧 𝗧𝗛𝗘 𝗖𝗛𝗔𝗡𝗡𝗘𝗟 Welcome to Marketing School, one of the top business podcasts with over 61 million downloads. Each episode delivers actionable marketing tips and strategies from two entrepreneurs who truly practice what they preach. The show is hosted by Eric Siu, founder of Leveling Up and Single Grain, and Neil Patel, co-founder of Neil Patel Digital and recognized by Forbes as a Top 10 Marketer. 🎙️ Learn More About the Hosts Eric Siu – Leveling Up: https://www.youtube.com/@LevelingUpOfficial Neil Patel: https://www.youtube.com/@neilpatel 📩 Free Resources Ubersuggest: https://www.ubersuggest.com/ Answer The Public: https://www.answerthepublic.com/ ✅ Subscribe for Daily Marketing Insights!

Transcript

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0:00.0	I don't know how involved are you with recruiting, but Naval said founders cannot outsource recruiting, right?
0:05.1	It is literally the most important thing that early people are the DNA of the company.
0:08.8	And the thing is, the important size at which a company starts changing is not some arbitrary number, like 20, 30, 40.
0:14.2	It's the point at which the founder is not directly recruiting and managing everyone.
0:18.0	The moment, there are middle layers of management, then you are somewhat
0:21.0	disconnected from the company and your ability to directly drive a product team that can take the
0:26.0	company from zero to one goes away. So we really cannot outsource recruiting. People think you can
0:29.9	to hire recruiters. Maybe you can outsource a little bit of sourcing, but I would argue even
0:33.5	that's difficult. So the non-obvious reason is that the best people truly only want to work with the best people. That's what it is. And you know what that feels like. And you won't tolerate working with. Like the moment someone starts to not have the right data, you're just, you've moved on to someone else. Yes. Yeah. So I'm curious. How do you do it? Because I know you're not that involved with recruiting. Mike is. It's one of his best skill sets. Okay. Which mic?
0:54.7	Mike. how do you do it? Because I know you're not that involved with recruiting. Mike is one of his best skill sets.
0:56.8	Okay.
0:57.1	Which Mike. Mike Camo. Yeah. He spends a lot of time recruiting. Mike's really good with people. He's the one who also got Mike Gullickson. Technically, JJ got us Mike Gammel. So he closed. Mike Camel closed him. Yeah. So he's a good close. So that's a big reason why your executive staff is so strong.
1:11.6	We closed Mike Gullickson before I met him.
1:14.4	I'm him. I met him after he signed up. After Mike. So yeah, it's good. So Mike is your co-founder that's on top of recruiting. Yes. And for all leadership roles, he double checks. And I wouldn't even say, I mean, like, you know, I don't think you care, but like,
1:28.1	I would say what I've seen you recruited in the past yourself, it doesn't usually work, like, not usually, but a lot of times it doesn't work out. Unless it's marketing roles. Yeah. Marketing roles, sales roles, I can recruit extremely well at. Yeah. And I only stick to those. So, for example, Nick Roshan, I recruited.
1:43.7	Yeah.
1:44.3	Okay.
1:44.7	So when we were interviewing Nick,oshan, I recruited. Yeah.
1:44.6	Okay.
1:49.6	So when we were interviewing Nick, it was me, my Camel, my co-founder, and Nate.
1:50.2	Remember Nate?
1:51.2	He said, do sales.
	...

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