Forests on Forests

Radiolab

WNYC Studios

History, Science, Documentary, Natural Sciences, Society & Culture

4.6 • 44.5K Ratings

🗓️ 24 April 2026

⏱️ 20 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

For much of history, tree canopies were pretty much completely ignored by science. It was as if researchers said collectively, "It's just going to be empty up there, and we've got our hands full studying the trees down here! So why bother?" But then around the mid-1980s, a few ecologists around the world got curious and started making their way up into the treetops using any means necessary (ropes, cranes, hot air dirigibles) to document all they could find. It didn't take long for them to realize not only was the forest canopy not empty, it was absolutely filled to the brim with life. You've heard of treehouses? How about tree gardens?! This week, we bring you a story we first released in 2022. We journey up into the sky and discover forests above the forest. We learn about the secret powers of these sky gardens from ecologist Korena Mafune, and we follow Nalini Nadkarni as she makes a ground-breaking discovery that changes how we understand what trees are capable of. P.S. This episode is a layer cake of arboreal surprises (including the reappearance of a certain retired host. LATERAL CUTS:From Tree to Shining Tree (https://zpr.io/4cHtDdYTuNxT): The episode that started this journey, where we look down instead of up. EPISODE CREDITS: Reported by - Annie McEwenProduced by - Annie McEwen EPISODE CITATIONS: Videos - Inside the Fight to Save an Ancient Forest (and the Secrets it Holds) (https://zpr.io/XKipP2z4NFiM), by Michael Werner, Joe Hanson, and the PBS Overview team. We first learned about the magical world of the canopy from this beautiful video. It features Korena Mafune’s research up in the treetops, as well as the people who have dedicated their lives to saving what’s left of the old growth forests. We highly recommend checking it out! Signup for our newsletter!! It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show. Sign up (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)! Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member of The Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today. Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailing radiolab@wnyc.org.Leadership support for Radiolab’s science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.

Transcript

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0:00.0	Wait, you're listening.
0:03.6	Okay.
0:04.9	All right.
0:05.9	Okay.
0:07.4	All right.
0:09.0	You're listening to Radio Lab.
0:11.9	Radio Lab.
0:12.4	From W-N-Y-S.
0:14.5	See?
0:15.6	Yeah.
0:16.7	Rewind.
0:18.0	Hey, I'm Latif Nasser.
0:22.4	This is Radio Lab.
0:23.9	One of our all-time, most popular episodes, was from tree to shining tree, which was about these vast networks hidden in the forest floor.
0:36.2	She began thinking about the forest that exists underneath the forest.
0:40.5	That's Robert Crulwich, who was one of our hosts at the time.
0:43.1	If you haven't heard the episode, you really should.
0:45.2	We profiled this scientist, Suzanne Simard, who discovered, to even her own great surprise,
0:52.5	these deeply complex interwoven mats of tree roots and mushroom threads, connecting trees together, helping them communicate, even share resources.
1:05.7	Like, there's a literal underground economy in every forest you've ever been to.
1:10.1	Turns out one tree was connected to 47 other trees all around it.
1:15.4	It was like a huge network.
	...

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