Hello, I'm Dr. Stephen Hassan with another episode of the Influence Continuum. Today I have a

distinguished journalism professor with me, Michelle Dodd, who's a contributor to the New York Times,

the Los Angeles Times, Time Magazine, so many publications.

You were a 22 faculty lecture of the year at Chaffrey College. Did I say that right, Michelle?

Chaffrey College, but it's okay. Chafee. And you created an award-winning literary journal and creative collective,

the Chafee Review.

And you teach poetry, critical thinking in California institutions for men and women in Chino.

And we were just chatting before we started that Leslie Van Houten,

famous Manson follower, who is in the news,

wanting, you know, being paroled, I hope, finally.

So we can maybe talk about that.

But I wanted to introduce my listeners, my followers,

to your memoir, Forager, Field Notes on Surviving a Family Cult. And this was a memoir

of your life growing up in an isolated mountain area in California,

part of an apocalyptic cult and uneducated and how you found your way out of poverty

and illness and just learned a ton about the wilderness,

which is a very unique feature of your book,

each chapter about foraging and using each chapter as a metaphor for things that you learned

that has sustained you. And you've built such an amazing life, Michelle. And I have so many people who are born

in authoritarian cults and who are just become stellar scholars and made enormous contributions

of the planet. And lastly, I'll just say, I'm trying to help destigmatize the

public's idea that only weak, stupid people, you know, uneducated people can ever follow an

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