Hello and welcome to Intelligence Squared where great minds meet. I'm

senior producer Connor Boyle on the podcast today Michelle Lamont the

Harvard sociologist discusses her new book seeing others which looks at how we assign value and recognition to our

fellow citizens. The book analyzes how this process is constantly influenced today by an era

largely dominated by increasing inequality.

Joining Michelle in conversation is Sophie McBain.

Sophie is associate editor of the new statesman and often writes on issues such as psychology,

the outlook of wider society, on the places where those two fields meet.

Now let's join Sophie McBain and Michelle Lamont in conversation.

Michelle Lamont is a professor of sociology, an African and African American studies at Harvard University and she is a pioneer of

cultural and comparative sociology. Her new book, Seeing Others, How to Redefined Worth in a Divided World, argues that we have lived for too long with

a neoliberal idea that our worth is defined by our wealth and our achievements, and calls for a new way of thinking about how we value

ourselves and others.

She believes we need to realize that social recognition, the experience of feeling seen

and respected, is a crucial component to our well-being

and that we need to collectively write new stories, new cultural narratives that afford equal

respect and dignity to everyone regardless of their race or gender or age or sexuality.

In this book she speaks to the change agents, among them activists, artists, writers, comedians and young people who are laying the foundations for a more inclusive society.

Welcome to Intelligence Square, Rochelle.

Thank you, Sophie.

The central argument of your book is that social recognition, feeling seen and respected is as

central to well-being as things like money and power and that culture can be as important for determining the shape of a person's life as economics.

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