And So, All right, this week I'm with Karim Sudan. No relation, who's an investigative journalist.

Rim for the Guardian, New York Times, foreign policy,

there's an excellent newsletter.

Welcome, Karim.

Thanks, I'd pleasure to be on today.

I was really just interested in your work and the kind of broad spectrum of topics you cover from

MMA and Formula One and obviously the geopolitics of sports.

Tell us a little bit about you, your background

and the work you do.

I think that's a great question to start us off at

because honestly, it's my background and my personal experience that really set the stage for me to even

consider covering the intersection of sports and politics as sort of a niche beat that became my

sort of the niche beat that became my sort of journalistic profile.

So for a lot of people, and I get this question a lot, honestly, why sports and politics?

Like, why do you think that there's such a relationship between sports and

politics to begin with? My answer has always been, well, I've never seen a world

where that wasn't the case. I'm Egyptian, I grew up in Egypt. Let's go back to the origin story itself. I was at a football game. It's an At least football game and an At least

is sort of Egypt's most well-known and dominant football club, really one of the one of the most dominant

football clubs in all of Africa probably won the champions like more time than any

other African nation or African team and I was at a football game I think it was was Elle versus Barcelona, believe it or not.

And this was in 2007 and this was sort of the early days of messy in Barcelona.

You had Eto and you had this beautiful team.

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