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The Michael Shermer Show

Flourishing in the Age of Algorithms

The Michael Shermer Show

Michael Shermer

Natural Sciences, Science

4.31K Ratings

🗓️ 18 April 2026

⏱️ 68 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

What actually makes a life feel meaningful? In this conversation, Daniel Coyle joins Michael Shermer to talk about why fulfillment rarely comes from optimization, status, or trying to "win" at everything. Instead, it grows out of connection, shared effort, curiosity, and the kinds of projects that pull people out of themselves and into real community.

Coyle makes the case that flourishing is not a mood and not a hack. It's a process. It happens in groups, in relationships, and in the messy work of building something with other people.

Daniel Coyle is the New York Times bestselling author of The Culture Code, which was named Best Business Book of the Year by Bloomberg, BookPal, and Business Insider. Coyle has served as an advisor to many high-performing organizations, including the Navy SEALs, Microsoft, Google, and the Cleveland Guardians. His other books include The Talent Code, The Secret Race, The Little Book of Talent, and Hardball: A Season in the Projects, which was made into a movie starring Keanu Reeves. His new book is Flourish: The Art of Building Meaning, Joy, and Fulfillment.

Transcript

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0:00.0

The New Zealand all black rugby team, one of the best rugby teams on the planet.

0:04.6

They have players guide practice once a week, players coach practice.

0:08.2

So the coaches step back, players run things.

0:10.2

Now, is that the most efficient way to go?

0:12.1

Absolutely not.

0:13.0

Like, coaches are better at running practice than players are.

0:15.4

No question.

0:15.9

It's messier.

0:16.7

It's more unpredictable.

0:17.9

But what do you get out of it?

0:19.1

You get this ownership, this agency, like the players own it.

0:23.2

The players are understanding the drills more deeply. They understand the strategic decisions more deeply.

0:28.3

You're taking them from being in the backseat, being a consumer to being a citizen, right? They are accountable.

0:33.8

It really gave me a different way of thinking about leadership. It's like it ain't about

0:38.1

having the right answer. It's about creating those three conditions. Frameworks give direction and

0:43.1

freedom and it allows people to self-organize. And that feeling, we actually see that with great

0:47.8

athletes too. Like the great athletes aren't the ones who are obedient to their coach. They're the

0:52.4

ones who are self-organizing around obstacles

0:54.7

all the time, right? They're able to move their body in ways that help them navigate and change

1:00.5

these obstacles. Life's complex. Life is not complicated. It is a living thing that we're probing into.

1:07.2

The best way to deal with complex systems is to probe and learn. You have to make an action

1:11.7

into it, and then that'll teach you something, and then you make another action. And that's how

...

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