I don't think progressives in general have much of a theory of technology anymore.

I think that it's often talked about in this dystopic way.

There's a lot of frustration at the billionaires who own it.

I often felt you sort of like oscillated between a very scary story about AI

and then also like a real interest in technology's way of solving problems.

And I'd love to just hear you reflect on that.

Like what do you think the political orientation to technology in general should be?

I love where you are on this, Ezra.

Like I think that ideally progressives are for progress.

You know what is going to enable a ton of progress is technology.

And one of the fun things about my campaign was I was making some very dark arguments

about the impact of technology, which I completely believe.

But I also agree with you that if you're trying to make people smarter, healthier,

mentally healthier, trying to clean up our planet, technology is a part of every single one of

those solutions in a very central way. And one of the dangers to me about a lot of our politics

now is where each arguing for different brands of nostalgia.

You know what I mean?

Meanwhile time only goes in one direction.

And you go to some of the folks who are working on the future and it is wild.

Like some of the things that they're working on are very positive and inspirational.

Some of them are very depressing and dystopian.

But they're all packaged together.

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