First Person: To Fight for Ukraine’s Freedom, He Went Back Into the Closet

The Ezra Klein Show

New York Times Opinion

Society & Culture, Government, News

4.6 • 11K Ratings

🗓️ 12 July 2022

⏱️ 38 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Today, we're bringing you an episode from the recently launched New York Times Opinion podcast, “First Person,” hosted by Lulu Garcia-Navarro. In each episode, Lulu sits down with people living through the headlines for intimate and surprising conversations that help us make sense of our complicated world. This particular episode is about one gay Ukranian soldier’s experience fighting against Russia. Since the beginning of the war, Ukrainians of all backgrounds have come together to fight their common enemy, Russia. But for some Ukrainians, that enemy holds particular terror. In Russia, gay people are routinely targeted for their identity — arrested without cause and even tortured. That’s what motivated Oleksandr Zhuhan to join the volunteer Territorial Defense Forces, despite experiencing homophobia in Ukraine. In the months since, Zhuhan has been fighting two battles: one for his country and one for his identity. You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more information for all episodes at nytimes.com/column/first-person. “First Person” is produced by Derek Arthur, Christina Djossa, Jason Pagano, Cristal Duhaime, Olivia Natt and Courtney Stein. The show is edited by Kaari Pitkin, Stephanie Joyce and Lisa Tobin. Scoring by Isaac Jones, Pat McCusker and Carole Sabouraud. Mixing by Isaac Jones. Fact-checking by Mary Marge Locker. Audience strategy by Shannon Busta, with editorial support from Kristina Samulewski. The executive producer of Opinion audio is Irene Noguchi, and the director of New York Times audio is Paula Szuchman. Special thanks to Jeffrey Miranda, Kate Sinclair, Patrick Healy and Katie Kingsbury.

Transcript

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0:00.0	I'm Ezra Klein. This is the Ezra Conchell.
0:22.8	We are sharing something different with you today, something fresh. An episode from the
0:26.6	New York Times Opinion Podcast, the new Opinion Podcast, First Person, which is hosted by my great
0:31.5	colleague, Lulu Garcia Navarro. First Person is a show exploring the stories behind the opinions
0:37.4	of people hold, how they get to the views that drive them. Hope you enjoy it, and we'll see you
0:41.6	later this week with a new EK show episode.
0:46.8	From the earliest days of the war in Ukraine, we've seen the images of everyday Ukrainians
1:01.6	signing up to defend their country against the Russian invasion, leaving behind the lives they'd
1:07.0	been living just days before. Wars can be uniting in that way, with citizens coming together
1:14.1	against a shared enemy, putting their differences aside. Alexander Zuhan, Sasha Gofashore,
1:21.4	was one of those who joined Ukraine's volunteer forces. He's gay, and for him Putin's Russia
1:27.8	held particular terror. Gay people are routinely targeted there, arrested without cause, even tortured.
1:35.7	And among the reasons Putin gave for invading Ukraine, he said the country had embraced values,
1:41.4	quote, contrary to human nature. But Sasha Gofashore had also experienced
1:47.6	homophobia within Ukraine in the years leading up to the war.
1:52.9	So when he started talking to my colleague Courtney Stein in the early days of the fighting,
1:57.6	he was facing dual fears, a future under Russia, but also how he might be treated by the soldiers
2:04.8	he was serving alongside. From New York Times opinion, this is first person. I'm Lulugar Sienovaro,
2:14.0	today Sasha Gofashore, and the fight for his future in Ukraine.
2:21.9	Hi Courtney, today is Kamar, then it was yesterday, but still it's not safe here anyway.
2:38.8	When we first started talking, Sasha was too busy to get on the phone.
2:42.1	We hear bombing sounds like every 15 minutes or every half an hour.
	...

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