This is Free Thought Radio with co-host Stan Barker and Annie Laurie Gaylor, Irreverent Views, News, Music, and Interviews.

Imagine there's no heaven.

It's easy if you try.

No hell below us, Above us only sky Imagine all the people living for today.

Hello, I'm Annie Laurie Galore, and welcome to Freethought Radio.

And I'm Dan Barker.

Annie Laurie and I are co-presidents of the Freedom from Religion Foundation.

This is the November 20th, 2025 episode of Free Thought Radio, recording in the Stephen Ool-friendly atheist studio in Freethought Hall, which is the national headquarters in Madison,

Wisconsin. And the Freedom from Religion Foundation produces this weekly show, Free Thought Radio,

because FFRF works to educate the public about non-theism

and the separation of state and church, we also work to keep religion out of government.

And we have 42,000 members in North America, and we would love to have you join us.

If you are not already a member, check us out at ffrf.org.

Today's show is going to be very entertaining and informative.

We're going to hear from three of the presenters at our annual convention last month in South Carolina.

First, Herb Silverman, the very funny South Carolinian math professor who successfully sued his state to allow atheists to run for

public office, then followed by the also very funny satirical singer-songwriter Roy Zimmerman singing about evolution.

And then on the more serious side, we'll hear from Nancy Northup, president and CEO of the Center for Reproductive Rights about the state of abortion rights in the United States.

The music today during the breaks comes from the King of Ragtime, Scott Joplin.

He was born November 24, 1868.

His worldly music was reviled by the churches, including by black clergy, because ragtime was considered degenerate and morally reprehensible.

Joplin embraced not religion, but education.

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