Hi, this is Christopher Gafford. I'm at work putting together a new narrative series set to drop in the fall.

In the meantime, I wanted to reintroduce you to the Trials of Frank Carson, the story of a criminal defense attorney who was put on trial for murder.

Thanks for listening, and please rate and subscribe.

I'm Christopher Gawford, writer and host of The Trials of Frank Carson, and today I'm going to talk about episode three, the incredible evolving story of Robert Woody.

Now, this episode is largely about the government's star witness in the case against Frank Carson.

Robert Woody.

You heard Woody's so-called confession to his girlfriend, which she came to believe was just macho posturing, and he claimed was just made up.

And you hear his interrogations, starting in March 2014, going all the way to July 2016,

and you can hear in real time as his story shifts and changes and evolves under intense police pressure to fit the favored police narrative.

The DA will tell the jury,

Woody tells you why you should convict.

He is the heart of the case.

Whether he's telling the truth is maybe the central issue in the whole case.

But his credibility is heavily compromised,

and as you've heard,

his account is riddled with inconsistencies.

You heard a DA investigator threaten him with a death penalty or life in prison as an incentive

to cooperate and it's possible to imagine how such threats might induce a frightened suspect

to tell cops what he thinks they want to hear.

So on this bonus episode, we are going to hear from Dr. Richard Leo, who's one of the country's

top experts in the area of police interrogation and false confessions. He's a professor of law

and psychology at the University of San Francisco.

...