It's almost like we want competing things that are kind of in conflict.

I think maybe we're not then and now very articulate about what a good election looks like

and a good political system looks like.

Is it one that is clean and sober and well-informed and rational, or is it one that has the

most people participating, if possible, including people who are kind of overlooked in other

aspects of society?

And you had this real trade off?

This is Sarah and Beth, you're listening to Pantsuit Politics, the home of Grace-filled

Political Conversations.

Hello everyone, welcome to another episode of Pantsuit Politics.

Here we are on the Friday before Father's Day.

We have a little special Father's Day content for you today.

The top of the show we're going to catch up on the news specifically President Biden's

trip to Europe.

So we're going to talk about his meeting with the Queen and his meeting with Putin, which

is about his different audiences as you could hope to ask for.

Then in the main segment of the show, I'm going to share my interview with John Grinzman.

He's an American historian and he has written this fantastic book and it's really through

the prism of a specific father and daughter that have been kind of lost in history but are

totally fascinating.

So I think you're really going to love that interview in the main segment of the show

and then at the end, outside of politics, we're going to talk about our own debts.

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