I'm Located in the foothills of Wyoming's spectacular wind river range, Wyoming Catholic College, an accredited four-year great books institution is built on the ancient Western tradition of the liberal arts and the freedom of the American West.

The college offers its students an immersion in the primary sources of the classical tradition,

the grandeur of the mountain wilderness, and the spiritual heritage of the Catholic Church.

Students experience the illumination of imagination and intellect through the great books and traditional disciplines,

literature and philosophy, mathematics

and theology, science and Latin, and an outdoor program second to none. The college celebrated an

in-person graduation with its seniors last year and welcomed its largest freshman class ever this year.

Learn more about the college's unique space in the world of American higher education at Wyoming Catholic.edu. We have with us Archbishop Charles Shapu. He is well known to

first things. He was an Erasmus lecturer for us, and he's a contributor. Recently retired

as Archbishop in Philadelphia, the author recently of Strangers in a Strange Land.

He has a new book, Just Out, entitled Things Worth Dying for, Thoughts on a Life Worth Living.

Welcome, Your Excellency.

Thank you very much, Mark.

I'm happy and honored to be part of your discussion.

All right. Well, your title suggests an immediate relationship between a good life and the willingness to die for certain things. Is that correct?

That if there are not things in your life that ultimately you would give up your life for them,

maybe it's not a good life. Is that the implication? That's what I personally think and

am very confident is true. I think that when it comes to actually dying for something or for someone, we might be

less generous than we dream we are or think we are. We would come to actually doing it. But I think

unless we think there are people worth dying for and things, issues or principles we're dying

for, our lives would be somewhat truncated

and shallow. I think many of us who were children dream of being heroes, those of us who come

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