Facts vs. Feelings: Rethinking How We Talk About Israel with Toba Hellerstein

Unpacking Israeli History

Unpacked

Judaism, Religion & Spirituality, Society & Culture, History

4.8 • 1.3K Ratings

🗓️ 26 August 2025

⏱️ 60 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

What wins hearts and minds — facts, or feelings? This week, Noam Weissman sits down with Toba Hellerstein, author of American Perceptions of Jews and Israel and a leading expert on antisemitism, diplomacy, and narrative strategy. Together, they unpack why Israel advocacy so often falls flat. From the meaning of Zionism to the archetypes of “king,” “victim,” and “antihero,” this conversation reframes how Jews (and their allies) should talk about Israel in a world flooded with images, emotions, and outrage. Here is a link to Toba Hellertsein's article in the Sapir Journal that inspired this episode: Actually, Feelings Don’t Care About Your Facts. Go to Attunenow.org to download the full study on Perceptions of Jews and Israel. Here is a link to Unpacking Israeli History: Sabra and Shatila: What happened and why it matters. Please get in touch at noam@unpacked.media. Your questions might be included in part 2 of this episode. Check us out on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Youtube.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ This podcast was brought to you by Unpacked, an OpenDor Media brand. ------------------- For other podcasts from Unpacked, check out: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jewish History Nerds⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Soulful Jewish Living⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Stars of David with Elon Gold ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Wondering Jews⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Transcript

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0:00.0	Hey, I'm Noem Weisman and you're listening to Unpacking Israeli History, the podcast that takes a deep dive into some of the most intense, historically fascinating and often misunderstood events and stories linked to Israeli history.
0:11.6	This episode of Unpacking Israeli History is generously sponsored by Andrea and Larry Gill.
0:17.0	If you're interested in sponsoring an episode of Unpacking Israeli History or even just saying what's up, be in touch at noam at unpacked.med.
0:24.5	That's noam at unpacked.
0:25.6	Okay, cool.
0:26.6	Before we start, one more thing, we're on Instagram, we're on YouTube, on TikTok.
0:30.4	Just search Unpacking Israel History and hit the follow or subscribe button.
0:34.2	Okay, yala.
0:35.5	Let's do this.
0:38.6	I'm a must have a lot. cry button. Okay, Yala. Let's do this. We, the people of Israel, are prepared and anxious to meet the representatives of our neighbors without any preconditions.
0:56.8	There are people in Israel and elsewhere say it's impossible to make peace between their
1:03.7	ups and Israel or the Jewish people. I think they're home. Today I have the honor of doing something a little bit different, but I do this every now and then.
1:15.0	I'm speaking with a guest.
1:16.8	Her name is Toba Hellerstein.
1:19.2	Toba is a leading expert on public perception, anti-Semitism, and emotionally attuned communication,
1:27.1	something that is so desperately needed in the broader
1:30.2	world and also in the Jewish and Israel and Israel-Palestine world.
1:34.2	With a background in diplomacy, intelligence, and narrative strategy, she has advised global
1:39.5	leaders, the Israeli government, and major philanthropic institutions.
1:43.3	She is the author of American Perceptions of Jews and Israel,
1:46.5	the first in-depth IRB qualitative study exploring how Americans form beliefs about Israel and Jews
1:53.1	and what could be done to change hearts and minds.
	...

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