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The Rich Roll Podcast

Facebook Whistleblower Frances Haugen On The ‘Chaos Era’ Of Social Media & The Future of Public Discourse

The Rich Roll Podcast

Rich Roll

Health & Fitness, Education, Self-improvement, Society & Culture

4.812.9K Ratings

🗓️ 7 September 2023

⏱️ 159 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Determined to bring transparency and accountability to Big Tech, in 2021 Frances Haugen risked everything to blow the whistle on Facebook. She copied tens of thousands of pages of documents that revealed that the social media giant had accidentally changed its algorithm to reward extremism. Even worse, Facebook knew its customers were using the platform to foment violence and spread falsehoods—and refused to fix it. Frances testified to Congress and spoke to the media. She was hailed at President Biden’s first State of the Union Address. She made sure everyone understood exactly what the documents showed. And she set an example for standing in truth and doing what is right for the greater good. Today we dive into the nuanced impact of social media on society. We talk about why algorithms prioritize extreme content and Facebook’s own complicity in radicalization and political violence around the world. We explore the tools available to combat these issues, including what Big Tech can do to prioritize user consent and reduce misinformation and hate speech. Note: If this exchange leaves you wanting more, Frances has written a compelling and comprehensive book about her experience entitled: The Power of One. Ultimately Frances left me with a surprising sentiment: the belief that we can have social media that brings out the best in humanity. This is a fascinating and important conversation. I hope you learn as much as I did. Show notes + MORE Watch on Youtube Newsletter Sign-Up Today’s Sponsors: ROKA: roka.com/richroll On: on.com/richroll AG1: drinkag1.com/richroll Plant Power Meal Planner: https://meals.richroll.com Peace + Plants, Rich

Transcript

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0:00.0

The Rich Roll Podcast

0:11.5

Facebook was so much worse than I had any idea it could be.

0:18.5

No one actually gets to see how Facebook is functioning.

0:21.5

You know, if you start a fight in a post, you're going to get much much more distribution

0:25.7

than someone who does a calm response.

0:28.3

If your kid uses social media for more than three hours a day,

0:31.3

they're at double or triple the risk of getting depression or anxiety.

0:34.9

The average kid in the United States uses these products for three and a half hours a day.

0:38.5

Zuckerberg himself refused to address these major problems.

0:42.6

Marcus had to be the CEO since he was 19.

0:44.8

He's the chairman of the board, which means that he is also his own boss.

0:48.5

He lives in an echo chamber.

0:50.6

We're not citizens on our social platforms.

0:53.7

We are subjects of a king.

0:58.8

Hey, everybody. Welcome to the podcast.

1:00.8

Today, I'm joined by Francis Halgan, a data engineer, a scientist,

1:06.4

and former lead product manager on the Facebook civic misinformation team.

1:12.0

But she is most widely known as the whistleblower during the 2021 Facebook files.

1:18.0

In an effort to stop Facebook's complicity in the radicalization and

1:22.7

instigation of political violence around the world,

1:25.5

Francis copied tens of thousands of pages of internal Facebook documents,

1:30.8

which revealed that the social media giant knew it had accidentally changed its algorithm

...

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