Next question then. So Francesca says, if we're on this merry-go-round where each far-right

or populist party gets a turn at governing, who is next? What other formations of the far right

might emerge as electoral contenders if Maloney is subject to the same decline in fortunes

that the five-star and the Lega experienced? I think the thing is that the success of the Lega and Fratelli d'Italia

in making big breakthroughs is something of an optical illusion

in the sense that they both rose from very low single figures percent support

to then become like, you know, 20 or 30 percent.

But actually they were also stronger at other points before.

So Fratelli di Italia scored only 4% in 2018.

But if we look at the same essential party, Allianza Nacionali, got like 15% in like the 90s and 2000s.

And like the overall right- wing block, which is basically the same three parties, has overall a quite stable support. You know, shifting between the parties, but the overall right-winning electorate with the three parties is, you know, evolves quite slowly.

Do you think that reflects the fact that Italy has been in, you know, this sort of populist

moment, which has been sort of diagnosed in Europe and the US at a much later point in time,

you know, Italy's kind of been in that situation just for much, much longer?

Yeah, definitely. And I think part of it as well is that in general it's true that the party

allegiances have like dissipated and also voters are very willing to switch between the

different right-wing parties and that's basically what we've seen.

But at the same time, the structures of the parties that did already exist, you know, three or four decades ago,

including both the Lega and what was the MSI, those party structures basically

continue to exist. You know, they still have branches and stuff like that.

So it's not like totally free form.

Or, you know, when Berlusconi created his party,

...