PI Magazine is the most respected magazine of the professional investigator featuring stories and articles on current topics, equipment reviews, investigative tips and practical advice for the professional investigator.

Don't miss a single issue of PI Magazine.

Subscribe today at pimagazine.com.

Use this show's promotional code for your special discount at pimagazine.com.

Subscribe today. Use promo code Nancy for your special discount. That's promo code Nancy.

Crime stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph channel 132.

One of the most feared serial killers known to American history whose name conjures up visions of terror, of kidnapping, of rape, of murder,

even necrophilia. He's called an evil genius. It's hard to live in America unless you're living in a cave or under a rock and not know the name Ted Bundy.

I Nancy Grace, this is Crime stories. Thank you for being with us.

Evil genius is that how Ted Bundy should be described born Theodore Robert Cowell, the American serial killer kidnapper burglar rapist,

Necrophile who confessed to 30 homicides in seven different states, a true count of his victims is likely to be much greater.

Joining me, renowned serial killer historian, author of Sons of Cain, history of serial killers from Stone Age to Present, Peter Vronsky, also with me Stephen Lampley,

police veteran, former S.V.U. detective and author of Outside Your Door, stories and cases of his police career, including the arrest of the Claremont killer, with me of course, Alan the Duke, Duke joining me from LA.

Alan, let me tell you a story about Ted Bundy and I really cannot reveal my source.

I had a very dear friend who was a rookie cop and Ted Bundy had to be transported.

The rookie, my friend, was with a veteran cop. The veteran cop was driving the car.

Now remember Ted Bundy had escaped the courthouse before. I believe escaped a jail before by losing so much weight he crawled through a vent, although I may be confusing my serial killers, but they were transported in the very slippery Ted Bundy.

And Ted Bundy got to complaining about, I guess the air conditioner or the heater or something in the car and the veteran cop pulls the car over, opens the car door, gets out, opens Bundy's door and says, get out.

I want you to run. Go ahead. Try to escape. Bundy of course did not get out of the car and the veteran cop came to us since he was shortly thereafter and slammed the door and got back in and continued transporting him.

So he could live off the public dull for several more years.

Everybody thank you for being with us. We're talking about evil geniuses. First to Peter Vronsky serial killer historian author of Sons of Kane, history of serial killer, Stone Age to President. It's on Amazon.com.

Peter Vronsky, why do people insist on referring to Ted Bundy as a genius? I mean, that's certainly putting perfume on the pig, isn't it?

...