Welcome to the President's Inbox, a CFR podcast about the foreign policy challenges facing the United States.

I'm Jim Lindsay, Director of Studies at the Council on Foreign Relations.

This week's topic is Europe's Geo-economic Revolution.

With me to discuss the transformation in the way the European Union approaches economics and the implications for transatlantic relations are Matthias Matisse and Sophie Munier.

Matthias is a senior fellow for Europe at the Council and the Dean Adjison

Associate Professor of International Political Economy at Johns Hopkins University's School of Advanced

International Studies. He is former chair of the European Union Studies Association. Sophie is senior research scholar in the school of

public and international affairs at Princeton University, interim director of Liechtenstein Institute

on Self-Determination, and chair of the European Union Studies Association. They recently

coer a piece for foreign affairs titled Europe's Geo-economic Revolution.

Matthias and Sophie, thank you for joining me.

Thank you, Jim.

Thanks for having us.

Sophie, I would like to start with you.

The term geo-economics has become very popular in our business.

But what exactly does it mean and how does it differ from ordinary economics?

Well, the simplest answer to this question is that geo-economics is the use of economic tools for geopolitical purposes.

In normal times, I should add. So we are not talking about things

like sanctions which happen during extraordinary times for extraordinary purposes, but just

in regular times. Let me ask you then. Give me an example of what geo-economics would be.

So geo-economics would be the use of particular tools, and there's an

entire arsenal and weaponry that countries have at disposal, whether they're defensive or

...