Thank you. The Pat Mayo Experience. Welcome to the Pat Mayo Experience,

presented by Underdog, digging into a special show today. We're going live on YouTube. We're live on

X, live on Facebook. So you good people, if you want to ask a question, I'll be monitoring the

YouTube chat. If you have questions for Jeff or Ryan fromcovers.com about the industry stuff.

ESPN bet is shutting down. ESPN has a new deal with Draft Kings and Penn, which was in collaboration with ESPN bet, is now putting everything to the score app.

Ryan, do I have that right?

You got it. Nailed it.

Jeff, like, ESPN, or is not ESPN, Penn has done a deal with Barstool that did not work out whatsoever,

and they sold it back to Portnoy for a dollar, to do this deal with ESPN, which also now hasn't worked whatsoever.

What's happening at Penn?

Well, they're just, um, the thesis that they have kind of makes sense, where they are traditionally

a brick and mortar casino company, the clientele of which is older and getting older.

And so they have been looking for ways to try to find younger customers that will come

to them and play with them, you know, as some of these

older customers, you know, age out, as they call it, or pass away. So the idea would be that

for them was to create these partnerships with these high profile entities that have, you know,

really good, solid, you know, brand recognition, if you want to call it,

with that younger audience. And it just, it just hasn't panned out for various reasons. And it's

been a very costly exercise for Penn. So, Ryan, like trying to think into it a little bit more.

I theorize this on the Best Bet Show I did today with Rob Pazola Cam Stewart. Rob and I were talking about this very briefly. And I, you know, I didn't want to blow it all there. I want to talk to you guys about it. But is it just more the concept that, you know, Barstool did lean into this very heavily. So I don't quite understand why it didn't work out with Barstool, but at least for ESPN, it did feel like when you watched a lot of the personalities, that they didn't really care to push it. It felt like an obligation to push rather than targeting the type of people that would like to talk about betting all the time. I know they had like the Joe Fortinbaugh show.

I like Joe. Joe's great. He can pump that. But your run of the mill average, like high end,

like very visible ESPN personality just wasn't good at explaining to people what this is. Or is it the clientele?

...