particularly in Western conventional wisdom around shame because we don't need shame to recognize that we've done something bad.

And feeling that we're the problem that we're bad consciously or unconsciously is the problem.

This is the problem.

It doesn't help us to change your behavior to be better.

But this is the kind of, this is the gaslighting that we're getting

from, from culture, from our society. It's even linguistically enforced. You have no shame,

Anika. You have no shame. This means that you're behaving and you're behaving vaguely.

You're so shameful.

Step into the world of success with your brand amplified,

the ultimate podcast designed to unravel the intricacies of thriving businesses.

I'm your host, Onica Jackson,

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Emma Lyons, we are going to talk about something that I think is top of mind for a lot of people, given the state of the world.

Examples that we've seen of narcissists out in the wild and embedding themselves in every facet of our lives.

But you also talk about the narcissist within and combating a lot of issues.

So you are the founder of Trauma Matrix, and I really am excited to dive into our conversation.

Thank you so much for having me, Hanukkah.

I'm great to be here finally.

Yeah. So how did you start this business? What was it that compelled you?

Well, before, I mean, I've always kind of been in the healing world for over a decade I have been.

But I've been focusing kind of on a specific niche, working with

...