You're listening to imaginary worlds, a show about how we create them and why we suspend our disbelief.

I'm Eric Melinsky.

I was in San Francisco recently and I went to a community space called the Radical Reading Room to meet with Joseph Crowder.

It's a very comfy space with couches, tables, lamps, and artwork on the walls.

Joseph brought game books, dice, and other gaming materials.

So I brought a bunch of cards like these are Magic the Gathering Decks.

He showed me these really cool containers for decks of

Magic the Gathering cards. He got them online. And one of the card containers

looks like a tiny dumpster. Another one looks like a little toxic waste barrel. Oh my God, yes, this is biohazard.

Yeah, that one's an outhouse. Oh my God, this is hilarious. It really looks like a tiny outhouse.

What's, how do you open?

It pops open from the side.

There's like a little.

Oh, I see.

Yeah.

And then, you know, like when I first got out,

a well-worn dice.

Yeah, those are, that one and this one are from, from prison.

I was going to ask you that because this dice is really very very looks very old and worn. Yep that's been

rolled on every possible surface from dirt to grass to gravel to wood. Wow. Yep.

Joseph was in four prisons up and down California.

He used to be a casual gamer before he was incarcerated, but in prison he says those games became a life saver.

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