Escalation Ep 3: Us vs. Them
Lawfare Presents: The Aftermath
Lawfare
4.8 • 5.3K Ratings
🗓️ 10 March 2025
⏱️ 39 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
By the late 90’s, Russia is reverting back to its corrupt, authoritarian ways and Ukraine begins to slide backward with it. In Ukraine, that corruption will lead to a gruesome murder and cover-up. While in Russia, that corruption will destroy any hopes for an emerging democracy. But after 9/11, The United States is solely focused on the fight against terrorism.
About Escalation:
In this narrative series from Lawfare and Goat Rodeo, Escalation lays bare the stakes of the Ukraine-Russia War through powerful storytelling and compelling voices. It reveals forgotten promises and fragile alliances that have shaped the U.S.-Ukraine relationship and how the decisions of policymakers in Washington, Kyiv, and Moscow have global consequences.
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | Escalation is presented by Delete Me, the industry leader in personal data removal. |
| 0:08.0 | Delete Me is trusted by 20% of the Fortune 500 and by federal, state, and county courts across the United States. |
| 0:17.0 | For more information on Delete Me and its services for individuals and businesses, |
| 0:23.7 | go to join deleteme.com slash escalation. |
| 0:30.1 | Previously on Escalation. |
| 0:32.7 | Denuclearizing Ukraine, that was clearly the overwhelming priority of the U.S. government. |
| 0:38.5 | Our objective was to receive in exchange national security guarantees. |
| 0:45.5 | We were not prepared to make that kind of commitment to the Ukrainians. |
| 0:49.3 | Skeptics once claimed that the nuclear threat would actually grow after the Soviet Union dissolved. |
| 0:55.7 | The skeptics had been proven wrong. |
| 0:57.6 | It's a total fail, actually, I think. |
| 1:00.2 | You cannot have any type of agreements with Russia because they all end up bad. |
| 1:06.8 | So people in Ukraine describe this moment, I think, specifically as a betrayal. |
| 1:10.3 | Do you think that's accurate? Do you think that's fair? |
| 1:12.3 | Yes, it's a betrayal. |
| 1:16.9 | I'll be honest. It's hard to look back at history as a Ukrainian, |
| 1:21.7 | especially during a war, when the stakes of every decision are so high. |
| 1:27.4 | And behind all of the public politics, there is so much |
| 1:31.0 | misunderstanding and frustration between Cleveland, Washington. While making this show, I keep finding |
| 1:37.2 | moments from decades ago when I just want to scream into the void. Why? Why did Americans think |
| 1:43.9 | that this or that was a good idea? |
| 1:46.7 | The Budapest memo is an example of that. The Chikin-Kayev speech is another, but there are also |
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