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Hey, Escalation listeners.

Tyler McBrion here with another bonus episode of the show.

You'll hear from Darya Kalyanuk, a Ukrainian activist and anti-corruption expert.

Darya has been fighting corruption in Ukraine for years, and we talked to her about its roots

in the Soviet system and everything Ukraine's done to fight it.

Here's the conversation.

So before we like get really into the depth of it, can you just give a little overview of

Ukraine's history with corruption as in like, has it always been like a really acute problem

for the country just from the 90s onwards?

Corruption in Ukraine is what we have inherited after the collapse of the Soviet Union

and the Soviet system of governance.

So basically we had more than 80 years of slavery under the Soviets.

And more than 80 years of slavery under the Soviets, and more than 80 years when our political elite, cultural elite,

intellectual elite, was literally destroyed.

And this caused the situation when, after the collapse of the Soviet Union,

different ways how the country was governed were kept

and some means of governing the country were transformed from the nomenclature style of management.

Basically, the nomenclature is when the insiders,

...